Questions about Suffering
Vince & Hayley respond to a grab bag of questions about suffering and the tension of alleviating vs embracing.
(Image from the Center for Action & Contemplation)
SPEAKER NOTES
Questions about Suffering
Introduce series
- To start off the new year we are doing a series of messages on suffering.
- A couple weeks ago we introduced a tension we all may feel in life- the tension of alleviating suffering or embracing suffering
- We hold these in tension- alleviate and embrace
- Longing to bring about change AND longing to radically accept what has taken place.
- To find a solution AND to sit with the pain
- While one or the other may be stressed by popular culture or the groups we are a part of, a full life (and a realistic life) has both: alleviate AND embrace
- We see this tension navigated in really helpful ways through the life of Jesus, who is the synthesis- the bringing together- of embracing and alleviating suffering.
- Navigating this tension is a helpful reminder that our identity is not our suffering nor is it removed from our suffering.
- Using the word dialectic to help our understanding: Vince, can you give us a reminder of what a dialectic is?
Vince- dialectic explanation
Today’s plan
Today we are going to take some helpful questions that were posed in discord, and some questions we’ve been thinking about and use them to guide our conversation- a question and response (not a q & A because we may not have the answer but we’ve got ideas. And a lot more questions too)
Encourage to continue to put more questions and ideas in discord too throughout this discussion
Q1
Rebecca wrote:
I'd love more of an exploration of which sufferings are worth the journey of acceptance and which are worth a dedicated opposition to their existence.
Which sufferings are which?
Vince Notes
- I don’t know if there is a perfect criteria for distinction — I think it’s always context dependent
- Even meaningless or random or unfair suffering (from cancer to a hurricane to racism) can be heroically transformed into meaning-making material
- I believe that’s one of God’s primary activities in the world —
- Resurrection after death —
- People working with God to take sufferings God never wanted to happen in the first place and transform, redeem them into things that shape us for the better
- This is why I personally bend toward the need for the spiritual —
- I need a Living, Guiding Presence, not just a “perfect” set of ethics
- Courage to face uncertainty strikes me as important to distinguishing sufferings moment to moment
- NOT courage to be certain, consequences be damned (as is sometimes taught in American Christian settings)
- BUT courage to face uncertainty (as Paul Tillich described — “the courage to be” in spite of the very real threats of non-being in life)
- For Tillich, courage to be certain can’t even be called courage — it’s a negative coping mechanism, no different than binging a food or substance or entertainment or other compulsive behavior to avoid your problems
- Courage to face uncertainty, however, can lead us to journey into embracing suffering OR faithfully stay dedicated to alleviating it
- God is always calling us to courage, it just looks different depending on the context
- We need inspiring stories of people courageously giving their lives to eradicate cancer or war, AND inspiring stories of people courageously overcoming grief caused by cancer or war.
Hayley Notes
- This reminds me of an Anne Lamott quote: “courage is fear that has said its prayers”
- There is a spiritual element in choosing how to respond in the face of suffering
- Often we think of fear as opposing courage but I like this honest approach of partnering with God in our fear and unknowing
- It’s also helpful to think of embracing - or accepting - suffering as a starting point not the resting place, especially if the suffering is ongoing
- If the instance of suffering has only happened in the past- that may be an indicator that the healing work of embrace is your only option
- But if the suffering is ongoing, seeing embrace as a starting point to alleviating helps Shifts the either/or of embrace or alleviate into a both/and
- Inward work of acceptance that allows us to pursue healing and making meaning for our individual lives
- There’s also a process of acceptance that has to take place in order to alleviate or oppose suffering
- Accepting that this is how things are or how things have been doesn’t mean accepting that this is how things will always be
- Where the term radical acceptance has been really helpful for me (term from DBT)
- Maybe embrace is an underlying part of opposing suffering?
Q2
Ed wrote:
Suffering is not experienced equally through different communities and identities. Equity plays a role in this conversation.
What role does equity play in this dialectic of alleviate & embrace?
Hayley Notes
- Absolutely plays a huge role
- On the embrace side: It’s problematic, in line with some of what we discussed last week for MLK weekend, for someone who holds privilege and power to tell someone else “you must embrace your suffering”
- Ex: The white clergy King is addressing in Letter from Birmingham Jail telling him to simply “wait” in the midst of injustice.
- And that same message of “embrace your suffering” may be a lifeline of survival if it’s communicated from someone who has actually experienced the suffering firsthand
- Because of our conversation around King’s work last week, I’ve had some new ideas around embrace as well
- Used it a lot to mean acceptance, or meaning-making
- Taking responsibility for
- To collectively and individually embrace our complacency in injustices, we can allow ourselves to move past shame and actually act in effective ways.
- Whether we are talking about a personal wrongdoing or a systemic injustice we’ve benefitted from, there’s an importance in taking responsibility for our role, acknowledging and accepting that harm has been done, and moving forward in a way that is not tied to shame
- Brene Brown says that shame is not an effective motivator and so if we want to embrace (or take responsibility for) our role in oppression in a way that fuels change, it can’t be rooted in shame
- And in terms of alleviating: Tempting for those of us who hold more privilege to separate out personal suffering from systemic suffering — there can be a difference of scale but I think it’s maybe more useful to think of it as a Venn diagram.
- Some of us may have very little that falls in the middle section— our personal sufferings are removed from systemic sufferings. And others of us may have a great deal of overlap.
- Important to have awareness around differences in resources, energy, and capacity
- Also important to have awareness of who has the most practice in balancing the tension, of navigating the dialectic
- To let those voices lead the way in efforts that alleviate from a place of embrace
Vince Notes
Q3
One question I (Vince) see texturing the “embrace suffering” side of the dialectic is:
How comforting (or not) is it to pass on wise words, quotations, or scripture meant to encourage one another in suffering?
Vince Notes
- It is comforting if we're mindful of context. It is usually not comforting if we're universalizing.
- Because there are different kinds of suffering.
- Quotes and proverbs and scriptures from the Bible address all different types.
- When we don’t keep context in mind, we insensitively universalize about all suffering, rather than speak appropriate wisdom for the kind of suffering at hand
- An example in the Bible —
- Meaningless/random/unfair suffering vs. Suffering with purpose
- Ecclesiastes (“The sinful prosper and the righteous die!”) is about meaningless or random or unfair suffering
- Hebrews (“The Lord disciplines those he loves”) is about suffering with purpose
- We need both categories
- Universalizing Hebrews, God is a tyrant behind every suffering, and life is overwhelming because "everything happens for a reason” and I have to decipher that,
- Universalizing Ecclesiastes, I'm always justified in my outrage, and my sense of self is too fragile to face being humbled
- Meaningless/random/unfair suffering vs. Suffering with purpose
Hayley Notes
Biblical context, also context of the relationship
- Two examples that come to mind for me: language of “Take up your cross” (in Matthew?)
- Jesus says to be my disciple, take up your cross and follow me
- It’s just my cross to carry, my suffering to bear
- Universalize that and the only way to follow Jesus is through suffering.
- So easy to conclude that God has given you this suffering to draw you closer
- Suffering designed by God
- Just icky
- Instead we could be viewing the suffering we encounter in life as inevitable and something we do not have to carry alone
- The other example: cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you (1 Peter)
- In some circumstances that may feel comforting and hopeful - we have a God who cares and is close in our suffering
- In other circumstances it may feel like the suggestion to just “stop being anxious”… removed and not particularly helpful
- The suggestion that your anxiety (or fear or depression or whatever it may be) is on you because you haven’t given it to God does not seem comforting to me
- Harmful messaging
- The relationship matters so much here— the era of instagram we have whole selection of beautifully formatted quotes (think emotional photography with “let go and let God” in cursive) or some really helpful work from creators I really like (a little more sustaining) - something feels good about passing those words on
- Relationship is always going to be more anchoring; it matters how words used in the context of each relationship
Q4
A question from Hayley…
Can we only embrace our own suffering and role in suffering?
Hayley Notes
- I do think that whether we are the one who has caused or participated in suffering or we are the sufferer, there is embrace work to be done in order to move forward
- We take responsibility for our role so we don’t operate out of shame
- We use radical acceptance for the sake of healing
- But I don’t know if we can embrace someone else’s suffering?
- Why I think this question matters- for those who have ever felt like you are in a fixer, helper, parental, peacemaker role— it can be tempting to unintentionally micromanage someone else’s journey in suffering
- Brings to mind for me Vince’s friend Natasha’s comment a while back when she joined us for a message - we have to trust people to be an expert on themselves
- We can’t assume what someone else’s process of alleviating or embracing suffering may be - and that may be difficult
- Especially when our own suffering is wrapped up in someone else’s
- Are there times we need to embrace someone else’s suffering?